Question for AIC or others who paid shuttle and extras

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Nkiru

Question for AIC or others who paid shuttle and extras

Postby Nkiru » Tue Mar 25, 2003 11:56 am

Hello
I would love to talk to AIC and anyone else who got hit with unforeseen shuttle charges and other extra charges. I'm writing an article about moving and would be interested in your story. Please contact me at 905 276 5548 or nkiru@gosympatico.ca. Thanks very much.
Nkiru Asika

Harry O'Brien
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Postby Harry O'Brien » Wed Mar 26, 2003 2:35 pm

Nkiru,

You should also include in your article information as to how a consumer could avoid these unforseen(by both mover and customer) shuttle charges.

The consumer can call their realty agent and/or building manager,at their destination, and ask them if where they are moving to is accesible to a tractor-trailer(standard 53ft trailer). If the answer is "yes" and the destination address is accessible the consumer should request the realty agent and/or building manager to send them a statment of such in writing.
If the answer is "no" and the only way to deliver is to shuttle the shipment ,then the consumer can notify the moving company of this,which will expediate their delivery as they will not be suprised, or find another residence that is accessible to a tractor-trailer(standard 53ft trailer)


As you can see Nkiru it is really very simple to avoid suprising yourself as a consumer or the moving company that you hire if you follow these simple steps.


Harry O'Brien

question

Postby question » Thu Mar 27, 2003 5:41 pm

What if the building manager says a truck will fit but then the driver says it doesn't?

How do I know that the driver is charging me the right amount?

What if the driver wants to tack on fees for extra labor?

I have a binding estimate. All I want to know is how much extra cash I need to have ready at destination so I don't face a hostage load situation. I don't want the movers to take off with my stuff and then charge me for storage.

z aka Michael

Question

Postby z aka Michael » Thu Mar 27, 2003 7:34 pm

Question,

Keep in mind that not all round pegs fit in the same round hole.

Therefore, not all trucks will fit into the same spot that the landlord says he has seen trucks park in. Most trailers now-a-days are 53" long, and then depending on the taste of the driver, the cabs can make the total vehicle 60-65 feet long.

Your driver should not be giving you prices or numbers, but your Coordinator should be telling you what the driver will expect to be pickin g cash/ money wise. Or your sales person.

The driver should be following the tariff, and should not be pulling numbers out of his butt, and quoting you.

If done correctly there is a process and procedure for him to follow.

Good Luck,

Michael

Harry O'Brien
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Location: New York
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Postby Harry O'Brien » Fri Mar 28, 2003 9:46 am

What if the building manager says a truck will fit but then the driver says it doesn't?

Have your building manager that said that a tractor trailer(53 ft) has access to your destination fax or email you a short letter to that effect.
Send that letter to your mover and let them know that you do not intend to pay for a shuttle since the building that you are moving to has access.
Now if your driver upon delivery calls his supervisor now feels he needs a shuttle when delivering at destination his supervisor will have the driver make every effort to try and deliver without a shuttle, because the supervisor and the driver knows that the customer has produced in writing that access is possible. Now if the destination conditions changed ,from the time that you recieved the letter from the building manager, because of construction or some other circumstance you might still legitimatly have a shuttle and attached charge. However,with the documentation that you have the moving company will in most cases not charge you the full cost of the shuttle.

How do I know that the driver is charging me the right amount?

The driver recieves his charges from his supervisor/dispatcher . These charges are based on the tariff that they are part of , if allied , north american,united,mayflower or atlas it is 400n, and the price will based on the weight of your shipment and will be written(or printed) on your "Bill of Lading".

What if the driver wants to tack on fees for extra labor?

If the driver is asking for extra labor at destinationit is because "you" are asking him to perform a service that "you" did not ask the moving company to include in your original binding price. If you do not want to pay for the additional service tell the driver not to perform it for you.
Do it yourself if you are able.
If you feel that what he wants to charge extra labor for is not valid call the moving company and speak with his supervisor or the manager of the whole company if need be.
The ground rule on extra labor has always been that extra labor cannot be charged to reassemble items if extra labor was not charged to disassemble them.

I have a binding estimate. All I want to know is how much extra cash I need to have ready at destination ? so I don't face a hostage load situation. I don't want the movers to take off with my stuff and then charge me for storage.

Carefully examine the checklist of items that are included in your binding price. Make your own list of everything that you will be shipping compare it carefully to the movers list , called "Table of Measurements". If your list closely matches the movers list of items and their are no additional services that you request to be done your Binding Estimate should be your exact price.
All legitimate companies accept Credit Cards and I would reccomend using your credit card on any large purchase not just moving.
If you have a dispute on what you were charged on a move you can contest this disputed charge with your credit company and they will make the moving company prove that what you were charged was indeed valid.
If the moving company does not have their paperwork in order or the charges are not correct the credit card company will refund you the disputed amount.


Best of luck to you on your move :!:

scammed

Postby scammed » Fri Mar 28, 2003 10:07 am

I'm afraid there's no guarantees with respect to the final amount you will be expected to tender at delivery.
IF you have an honest carrier, you should receive accurate estimates based on information provided to them
regarding conditions at the delivery site. However, if you are one of the unfortunate whose carrier is bent
on exacting extra funds from you, I'm sorry to have to tell you there is no way to insure what the final tally
will be. Despite information detailing what "should" happen to follow current regulations and practices of
the moving industry, in reality, that may or may not happen. I have certainly heard anecdotal information
detailing instances where a four or five step porch, or a 35ft. driveway have been an excuse to justify extra
charges, regardless of whether this is "officially" allowed. And I have personally witnessed that among those who would defraud you, paperwork, no matter what it says, is not worth the paper it's written on. The reason for this is simple: the system is
set up to prevent the customer from having any effective recourse to challenge these unauthorized charges, or unscrupulous practices.
What this means is, IF your carrier decides to impose extra charges, even if they are directly contrary to
industry standards, Federal regulations, or any paperwork you have, you may in fact make complaints to anyone and everyone, but you
will find little or no help, and almost certainly not (with the possible exeption of rare instances where
local police have become involved - most of the time they will not do this) in time to prevent you from
being in a "hostage freight" situation, since whatever payment will be demanded at time of delivery before
they will unload your shipment.

This is one of the real problems with the industry that has led to the proliferation of those businesses who understand and exploit this inherent flaw. The other, in my opinion, is the allowing of on-delivery-site determination of extra carrying charges at the sole discretion of the carrier without clearly defined and delineated guidelines.

Best of luck to you.

Guest

Postby Guest » Fri Mar 28, 2003 10:50 am

Scammed,
The charges that you mention extra carrying , "long carries" ,no longer exist in Tariff 400n that the major van lines use.
Long Carries , stairs and elevator charges are no longer chargeable items.

Like I said in my previous email ; I would reccomend using your credit card on any large purchase such as moving.
Get delivered and dispute your charges later if they are indeed invalid your credit card company will refund you the disputed amount.

Its really a simple process if you follow the advice i have posted.

Harry O'Brien

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twalker
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Postby twalker » Fri Mar 28, 2003 11:15 am

Harry,

Using a credit card IS NOT any kind of guarantee whatsoever. I have heard from countless victims that used their credit card, but when they went to challenge the charges, the CC company stated that they do not dispute shipping charges.

Even if the credit card company would dispute the charges, the laws and the tariff's are written to be completely on the side of the moving companies. Do you really think that some customer service person or adjuster at Master Card is going to know what's in Title 49, or in the 400-N tariff?

Tim Walker
MovingScam.com

Support H.R. 1070

Postby Support H.R. 1070 » Fri Mar 28, 2003 12:29 pm

The movers will ask for cash for the additional services anyway, even if you had put the original estimate charges on a credit card.

The movers will certainly demand cash for additional services when the original estimate is "binding" or "guaranteed," for obvious reasons. As for the movers supposedly following tariff charges and not making up their own numbers -- Are we customers supposed to have our own copy of the tariff with us so we can check the math? If a driver claims that a 35' driveway looks to be 350' to him, and the driveway is $500 worth of "extra labor" for him (instead of calling it "long carrys" -- they don't call it that anymore) how are we supposed to stop him when he has everything we own?

This system needs to be fixed, big time. Thus -- SUPPORT H.R. 1070!!

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twalker
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Postby twalker » Fri Mar 28, 2003 12:44 pm

For more information on HR 1070, and how you can support the bill, please read this page:

http://www.movingscam.com/news/HR-1070.shtml

Tim Walker
MovingScam.com

Harry O'Brien
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 5:18 pm
Location: New York
Contact:

Postby Harry O'Brien » Sat Mar 29, 2003 10:03 am

Support H.R. 1070,

There are no such thing as LONG CARRY charges anymore they do not exist in Tariff 400n. Neither do elevator or stair charges.

The only thing that can alter your charges at destination are the conditions at the destination address that "you" have chosen to move to.

The moving company didnt pick ou the new residence " you" the consumer did and it is "your" responsibility to provide access.

It is really very simple:

What if the building manager says a truck will fit but then the driver says it doesn't?

Have your building manager that said that a tractor trailer(53 ft) has access to your destination fax or email you a short letter to that effect.
Send that letter to your mover and let them know that you do not intend to pay for a shuttle since the building that you are moving to has access.
Now if your driver upon delivery calls his supervisor now feels he needs a shuttle when delivering at destination his supervisor will have the driver make every effort to try and deliver without a shuttle, because the supervisor and the driver knows that the customer has produced in writing that access is possible. Now if the destination conditions changed ,from the time that you recieved the letter from the building manager, because of construction or some other circumstance you might still legitimatly have a shuttle and attached charge. However,with the documentation that you have the moving company will in most cases not charge you the full cost of the shuttle.

How do I know that the driver is charging me the right amount?

The driver recieves his charges from his supervisor/dispatcher . These charges are based on the tariff that they are part of , if allied , north american,united,mayflower or atlas it is 400n, and the price will based on the weight of your shipment and will be written(or printed) on your "Bill of Lading".

What if the driver wants to tack on fees for extra labor?

If the driver is asking for extra labor at destinationit is because "you" are asking him to perform a service that "you" did not ask the moving company to include in your original binding price. If you do not want to pay for the additional service tell the driver not to perform it for you.
Do it yourself if you are able.
If you feel that what he wants to charge extra labor for is not valid call the moving company and speak with his supervisor or the manager of the whole company if need be.
The ground rule on extra labor has always been that extra labor cannot be charged to reassemble items if extra labor was not charged to disassemble them.

I have a binding estimate. All I want to know is how much extra cash I need to have ready at destination ? so I don't face a hostage load situation. I don't want the movers to take off with my stuff and then charge me for storage.

Carefully examine the checklist of items that are included in your binding price. Make your own list of everything that you will be shipping compare it carefully to the movers list , called "Table of Measurements". If your list closely matches the movers list of items and their are no additional services that you request to be done your Binding Estimate should be your exact price.
All legitimate companies accept Credit Cards and I would reccomend using your credit card on any large purchase not just moving.
If you have a dispute on what you were charged on a move you can contest this disputed charge with your credit company and they will make the moving company prove that what you were charged was indeed valid.
If the moving company does not have their paperwork in order or the charges are not correct the credit card company will refund you the disputed amount.


As to Credit Card disputes :

Tim ,

I have personally handled them for several legitimate companies I have worked for over the years.

I wish that credit card companies sided with the company if the dispute was invalid.
The truth of the matter is the credit card company takes the "consumers" position and side even if the dispute is invalid.

At best, from a companies position, there is an negotiation for less then the amount disputed even if , as often is the case, the dispute is invalid and fraudulant.

Thats a fact , an unfortunite one as the credit card companies should take a more neutural stance.

As a consumer myself I had bought a sofa recently and after it was delivered I noticed a cigerette burn on one of the cushions.
I called the company and they told me I had signed that the sofa was delivered in perfect condition. This is true I had and I should have examined the sofa more though before signing the document. But my son noticed the burn hole about an hour after they left and I knew it was there before it was delivered ,as noone in my home smokes. I called the furniture company and spoke to the owner who refused to do anything for me and basically told me to stick it. I then called me credit card company and disputed my charges. My compliant was valid and I am guessing they ruled in my favor because this company had other complaints. Unlike some people, I dont want something for nothing and called the furniture company and told them to pick up there sofa that i had sitting in my driveway for them. I could have kept it , my wife sewed the cigerette hole up and these lowlifes prob. sold it again at full price, but I am honest and I dont want anything that I am not paying for I just want to be treated fairly. THE MORAL OF THIS STORY CONSUMERS USE YOUR CREDIT CARD ON ALL MAJOR PURCHASES :!:

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twalker
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Postby twalker » Sat Mar 29, 2003 11:25 am

Harry,

What color is the sky in your world? You make no sense, and you offer dangerous advice. Please, oh please, just go away. You're doing more damage than good. Things are NOT the same as they were when you started in the moving business and the ICC regulated the industry, and you need to take off your rose colored glasses and see what's really going on.

In a perfect world, consumers would find a web site like this before they move. What you don't understand is that this isn't a perfect world, and the majority of folks who need the help of this web site found it because they have already been scammed. What advice is it that you have to offer the folks who's belongings are currently being held hostage? What advice is it that you have to offer consumer's who thought that they hired an honest moving company, only to have their price doubled, trippled, or more after their belongings were loaded on the truck?

For the folks who are lucky enough to find this web site before they move, there is already better advice that anything that you have had to say already on this web site. If you're going to give advice here, stick to what consumers legally have available to them, not what's in your little mover's handbook, or the sales script that they gave you.

If someone has a specific question about your company's policies, then please be my guest and answer them, but until your company's handbook is written into law save us the B.S. and refrain yourself.

Tim Walker
MovingScam.com

Harry O'Brien
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 5:18 pm
Location: New York
Contact:

Postby Harry O'Brien » Sat Mar 29, 2003 12:05 pm

I have given truly the only usefull advice on how to recieve an accurate estimate.

If you are asking what advice I would offer someone who choose a company that was holding there furniture hostage for triple the amount for example here it is.

PUT YOUR MOVE ON AMERICAN EXPRESS LET THEM CHARGE YOUR CARD WHATEVER THEY WANT. AFTER YOU RECIEVE YOUR FURNITURE CALL AMERICAN EXPRESS AND CONTEST THE CHARGES.

This will work with any credit card company ,although IMHO AMEX is the most consumer oriented.

Dangerous advice would be refusing to pay them and end up litigating in court to get your belongings back , especially since most of the companies that people get scammed by might not even be "offically" in business by the time they take them to court.

Thats what I would do if it were my familys belonings being delivered.

I dont know why you would find what I say to be offensive I am trying to offer consumers proactive advice that works not the B.S. advice that I see that is all over the web.

As an insider in the moving business "everything " that I offered as advice will help the consumer that is not available anywhere but here.

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twalker
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Postby twalker » Sat Mar 29, 2003 12:12 pm

Oh my God! :shock:

You just solved everyone's problems! Ok folks, new plan... call Thomas Petri, and tell him that HR 1070 isn't really necessary! Harry has the answers! Just put everything on your credit card, and nobody will every hastle you again!

Now... where did I put my rose colored glasses.... whoops, I'm wearing them! :roll:

Tim Walker
MovingScam.com

Support H.R. 1070

Postby Support H.R. 1070 » Sat Mar 29, 2003 12:17 pm

Harry, please go and start your own website. Your advice begins and ends with "be honest with the moving company and choose one of the majors." You act as if this will guarantee that the customer won't be held hostage. Choosing and being honest with a major will reduce the chances of getting low-balled and held hostage, but it doesn't eliminate it. If you are saying that it does, then you are extremely naive or you are intentionally lying.

You have beaten your dead horse enough already. If websites like this make you feel defensive, then it should. If you want to improve the image of your industry, support Petri's bill. Otherwise, take your tedious and beside-the-point rambling elsewhere.


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