mayflower, atlas, allied

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Guest

Postby Guest » Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:42 am

AIC you are way offbase.

When the theoretical customer that we are using at an example recieved his binding estimate he would have recieved and signed the page that the estimator left with him entitled "Table of Measurements". The "Table of Measurements" clearly states what is to be shipped and only those items are included in the binding price. When the customer signs this "Table of Measurments" he/she acknowlages that this document is correct and represents what is to be moved in the price of the binding estimate.
Now if this customer contracts to move 50 cartons and when packing that he/she will have 150 cartons. Maybe the garage sale didnt go as well as planned, or a spouse or family member took items that were not originally going.
Now is the time to call the moving company and say " I think you guys should come back out here I a have 100 more boxes than what I contracted to move with you and I want to know how much more this is going to cost me."
Thats the honest way to approach it :!:

If you want to get the additional 100 boxes shipped for free after you breached your signed agreement on what you agreed to ship , then you are "no better" then the criminal movers that have preyed on consumers that frequent this board.

The idea shouldnt be to "trick" the legitimate mover into providing free services, but instead to provide as accurate information as possible to the estimator so he/she may leave you an estimate that is very accurate and a reflection of the final price you will be paying.

HONESTY IS THE BEST POLICY FOR BOTH THE CONSUMER AND THE MOVER :!:

AIC

Postby AIC » Wed Mar 26, 2003 12:08 pm

Harry, your position assumes that the customer is (or should be) as well-trained as the estimator in understanding how to read a "Table of Measurements." If the customer knows that the estimator made an error, then of course he should be honest and point that out to the estimator (just as an honest customer would point out to a cashier that the cashier returned too much change, for example). But it's not reasonable to assume that a customer knows (or even should know) the "ins and outs" of estimating, and the reality is that most customers would not know that any errors have been made. The customer will just contract with the low "binding" bid on the belief that the estimator is competent and that the van line will stick by its supposedly "firm" or "fixed" price quote.

The scenario I described in my last posting also occurs when the estimator (again, through incompetence, negligence, or outright fraud) marks down "150 boxes" on the Table of Measurements, but then underestimates the weight by, for example, assigning 5 lbs as the weight of each box (instead of 40 lbs. per box). Weight underestimates occur in all sorts of ways. And again, the driver will issue a challenge, and the customer will, in all likelihood, pay for the estimator's "mistake" on a so-called "binding" estimate.

Guest

Postby Guest » Wed Mar 26, 2003 12:46 pm

Thats incorrect AIC the "Table of Measurements" is very clear .

It is simply a list of the items that are included in the binding price to be shipped.
It requires "no" expertise to read this document.

If a consumer is competent enough to enter into an agreement with a moving company they should be competent enough to read their agreement that when signing they have agreed is valid and includes "all" the items that make up the attached binding price.

If you sign any agreement or contract with "any" business without reading it fully and understanding it you are not a victim of the company but of your own stupidity.

Before I sign any agreement or contract ,in my business or personal life, I make darn sure that I understand fully what I am signing and therfore aggreeing to abide by.

THATS COMMON SENSE :!:



There are no "ins and outs" of estimating anymore with the deletion of long carries,stairs and elevator charges in tariff 400n.
All the consumer needs to do when dealing with a legitimate moving company is to be sure that the items they signed an agreement,clearly specifing the exact items, to move are the same items that they have the moving company move when they arrive to load their belongings.

Check the destintation of where you are moving by calling your realtor and if you can get from them in writing that the building/home you are moving to has access to a tractor trailer(53ft) you will have no suprises at destination that will effect your binding price.

All very simple things that anyone can do to assure a good move exp.

Harry O'Brien

z aka Michael

Inventories

Postby z aka Michael » Wed Mar 26, 2003 8:09 pm

Lets keep in mind too, well I guess this is more obvious to those in the business, but most of us utilize some sort of computer generated inventory, that details, everything room by room.

So it will state for example 5-1.5, 7-3.0, 4-4.5 in the master bedroom, and list the furniture. It will list the cube of the article, and the quanity.

So yes these are very simple to read now-a-days. And if your a detailed sales person, you will explain to the customer what the inventory means, what to look for, and what a cube is and how it correlates to weight.

Also keep in mind. When a customer says they will pack themselves. How they will actually pack. When I do an inventory, I still look at things as if my company would pack them. But 9 out of 10 customers will will pack everything in the smallest number of boxes they possibly can. So my 80 boxes I estimated the customer will or should pack, ends up being 180 boxes that they packed. I explain that to my customers, and try to get them to use the boxes I recommend.

I will also let them know, that again, I am charging them for weight, not boxes. 10,000 pounds is 10,000 pounds, whether its in 50 boxes or 150 (estimated). I also explain to them, that if there is a major difference in box count, not to be surprised if the driver does protest, and explain once again, the importance of the inventory. To call me before the move if they have made any major changes.

We are the professionals, not our customers, so educate them. Dont rely on them to know it all. :lol:


Michael

JayR

Postby JayR » Wed Mar 26, 2003 10:01 pm

Harry O'Brien wrote:400n was adopted by the 5 major carriers in 2002 .

Correcting my typo


Harry, just to correct your typo again.

The 400N was NOT adopted by the 5 major carriers in 2002.

Allied uses TPG. TPG stands for total price guarentee. I have seen their estimated and I can not really understand what they do come up with their prices.

Please check your facts before you say something.

JR

Harry O'Brien
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 5:18 pm
Location: New York
Contact:

Postby Harry O'Brien » Thu Mar 27, 2003 9:12 am

Sorry to tell you that you are wrong.

Allied uses the 400n tariff.

Total Price Guarentee or TPG is a type of binding estimate that Allied sometimes does in which they will bind their price according to the items that you have agreed to ship with them.

Knowing people in Allied agencys and having had TPG exlplained to me I can tell you the pricing on a TPG is very similar to an International Relocation , as it allows the estimator to determine their commision on the job and add it,unseen, into the binding price.

My observation on TPG has been that the costs given to consumer on a TPG estimate have been much higher than compared to one on 400n.
This observation comes from seeing literally hundreds of estimates from competiters and comparing them to ones that were given by the moving company where I am employed.

I believe the reason for this is that the estimator/salesperson determines his own commision and adds it to the binding rate.

TPG is similar in philosophy to Saturn cars in that I believe the theory behind it is that some consumers are willing to pay more for what is percieved,but is not actually, as a flat rate.

I hope this enlightens you Jayr

jay r

Postby jay r » Fri Mar 28, 2003 11:31 am

Harry O'Brien wrote:Sorry to tell you that you are wrong.

Allied uses the 400n tariff.

Total Price Guarentee or TPG is a type of binding estimate that Allied sometimes does in which they will bind their price according to the items that you have agreed to ship with them.

Knowing people in Allied agencys and having had TPG exlplained to me I can tell you the pricing on a TPG is very similar to an International Relocation , as it allows the estimator to determine their commision on the job and add it,unseen, into the binding price.

My observation on TPG has been that the costs given to consumer on a TPG estimate have been much higher than compared to one on 400n.
This observation comes from seeing literally hundreds of estimates from competiters and comparing them to ones that were given by the moving company where I am employed.

I believe the reason for this is that the estimator/salesperson determines his own commision and adds it to the binding rate.

TPG is similar in philosophy to Saturn cars in that I believe the theory behind it is that some consumers are willing to pay more for what is percieved,but is not actually, as a flat rate.

I hope this enlightens you Jayr


Thats pretty funny, considering that I have never seen anything BUT TPG from Allied. I have been in the industy for 6 years and have never, ever, seen 400n from Allied.

You said that the TPG was higher that 400n? I hope thats not what you meant. Allied is the low price guarentee. I can go out on job and estimate the exact same weight, provide the exact same services and yet they will 20 - 30% lower than my 400n quote.

I had no idea that the salesperon adds him own commision to the job. Its no wonder that the rates are totally different on every move. Allied gives me more head aches than anyting I have ever seen.

To close, I have never seen Allied use any other pricing system the TPG, ever.

I hope that clears it up for you.

Michael
Posts: 3255
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 7:55 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

TPG

Postby Michael » Fri Mar 28, 2003 9:09 pm

I agree. I have never seen anything but the TPG from Allied also. I know the local agent here uses it.

In regards to their commission being in the prcie, that is true. It use to be under Management Service Fee. But now it is hidden in the transportation cost, so you dont see anything but one big number.

And I remember the TPG being 5% less then the 400 tariif when it was 400L. but now with rates increasing, it is closer to 15-20%. I heard the drivers for Allied hate the TPG, cause of the low cost. It amazes me they are able to stay in business.
Michael
************************************

Forget yourself for others and the others will never forget

Harry O'Brien
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 5:18 pm
Location: New York
Contact:

Postby Harry O'Brien » Sat Mar 29, 2003 9:24 am

JayR & Michael,

You and Michael are in an area where this may be true, but in the New York City area we almoast never see TPG estimates from Allied only 400n.
Mayflower and United have a similar tariff available that is like TPG, but like TPG it is fixed at a very low discount and in our area it is very price competitive and shippers dont seem willing to pay significantly more for TPG type pricing.

Michael
Posts: 3255
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 7:55 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Different Tariff

Postby Michael » Sat Mar 29, 2003 11:32 am

Harry,

Out of curiosity, what tariff do you use in NY, other than the 400N, for an interstate move? I was not aware of any other tariffs available to United or Mayflower agents, being in different areas?

Thanks,
Michael
************************************

Forget yourself for others and the others will never forget

Harry O'Brien
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 5:18 pm
Location: New York
Contact:

Postby Harry O'Brien » Sat Mar 29, 2003 11:48 am

We only use 400n, but Mayflower has a TPG type tariff that can be used.
Go to the Mayflower intranet and you can download a copy or call Cris Porter at Mayflower Headquarters and she can send or fax you a copy.
If TPG is being used in your area this might be a solution :wink:

Michael
Posts: 3255
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 7:55 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Postby Michael » Sat Mar 29, 2003 8:46 pm

Is this like a single factor?? And Harry, did you read the first issue of the MainSail?? Particularly page 2??
Michael
************************************

Forget yourself for others and the others will never forget

Guest

Postby Guest » Mon Mar 31, 2003 9:30 am

Michael ill email you.
I dont want to make posts that are not the focus of the site.

calcock
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 5:01 pm

Mayflower is scamming me now.

Postby calcock » Thu Apr 03, 2003 5:07 pm

Avoid Mayflower (Manchester, NH). They are doing the standard scam on me now. Estimate was in error by 1200 lbs (discrepency between person who visited my home for the quote, and the driver), so now they expect me to pay an extra $600 (above and byond the 110% quote). Can't wait until tomorrow when the driver shows up; God only knows what sh*t he'll get on with.

Taxiflora

Postby Taxiflora » Thu Apr 03, 2003 5:41 pm

Did you have a binding or non-binding quote? If it's a binding quote, the additional weight is not supposed to make the final charges go up. If it was a non-binding quote, then you can tender 110% of the estimate, and the moving company is supposed to release your goods and hold off collecting the rest of the balance for 30 days. Of course, what is "supposed" to happen does not always happen. As you can see, it doesn't matter that you've hired one of the major affiliates.

Here's my advice: If the driver is bent on getting an additional $600, then the best thing to do is to give it to him. (They've given you advance warning so you have time to collect this money before he arrives tomorrow.) The last thing you want is for them to take your stuff to storage on the grounds that you couldn't or wouldn't pay the bill (inflated or not). When push comes to shove, the crooked moving company will do that. Once that happens, they will tack on thousands of extra dollars in storage fees and re-delivery. They know you have no recourse.

You will have to try to get your money back later, either through complaining to Mayflower headquarters (don't count on it working) or suing. But at least you'll have your stuff while you're fighting them.

Try this: fax a letter to Mayflower Transit's corporate headquarters in Fenton, MO right now. Tell them what is happening, and that any "addendum" or "change order" that you sign tomorrow (the driver will not unload until he gets your signature on these extra papers) will be signed under duress. Put them on notice that you are in no way agreeing that the extra charges are proper and that you will contest them.


Good luck. Keep us posted.


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