mayflower, atlas, allied

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shawnathomas

mayflower, atlas, allied

Postby shawnathomas » Fri Mar 21, 2003 12:25 pm

I am making a move from NC -->TX and have gotten 3 bids from

mayflower 3500/4500
atlas ??/61000
allied ??/6500


This is for packing myself/them packing
days to delivery are 5-11 mayflower
and 2-6 for the others.


I am concerned that Mayflower can do it so cheaply while the others seem about the same in price ansd services


anyone with comments


Thanks


Shawn :o

AIC

Postby AIC » Sat Mar 22, 2003 11:03 am

Who are the agents involved in the three bids? Ask your origin agents (the ones who gave you the bids) who the "destination agents" will be if you contract with their van line. In the end, whether you will be taken advantage of will depend on the honesty of the individual agents involved.

Based on my experience with Mayflower Transit, I cannot recommend them.

z akaMichael

Three bids

Postby z akaMichael » Sun Mar 23, 2003 2:23 pm

Shawn,

Who is the Mayflower agent and where are you in NC?

Michael

shawnathomas

mayflower movers

Postby shawnathomas » Sun Mar 23, 2003 7:25 pm

The mayflower agent in Winston-salem NC is Ray Moving and Storage.

they have been nothing but helpful and courteous. As for the delivery in Tyler they stated it would be the local service there but did not give an agency name.


They (mayflower) have given me an "binding esimate" and they assure me that "it will not be higher", short of me needing shuttle service or exceptions for elevators/stairs etc.

This seems reasonable.

The rate I am being charged works out to be about 5.5c/lb while the others quoed me slightly more weaight (some considerably more weight..the range was 7500#-11500#) with the cost averaging ~7c/lb.

All but Mayflower gave me non-binding estimates. They openly stated they would weigh the contents afterloading and check for additional weight.

i was told by the mayflower agent that the avg for the insdistry was ~1000-1500# per room. (this includes bathrooms because they expect rooms like bedrooms and living rooms to weigh moe and then average out.) The mayflower bid had us ~915#/room and most of the others ran ~1300-1500.

Harry O'Brien
Posts: 26
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Location: New York
Contact:

Postby Harry O'Brien » Mon Mar 24, 2003 12:40 pm

All three of the companies that you have chosen are associated with the top van lines thats a step in the right direction.

The 3 estimates that you recieved should have included with them a "table of measurements". The " Table of Measurements" is a check off list that should have all the items that you indicated to the estimator that performed your estimate.

Make your own detailed list of all the items that you are shipping and match your list to the "table of measurements" given by the 3 companies.

If your list closely matches the estimators " Table of Measurements" your estimate should be very accurate.

Also, If you are moving to a gated community or apartment complex at destination call the building manager or realty agent and have them send to you, in writing if possible, that the said development has acess and allows use of a tractor trailer (trailer 53 ft.).

If they do not allow or have access for the large tractor trailer that is standard with all the interstate moving companies a shuttle with a smaller van may be necessary and this is a significant cost.

If you want to save this cost, that would be a suprise to both you and the mover, make sure you move where normal acess is allowed.

When you complete your own list you will most likely find that the highest weight that you had an estimate for was the most accurate.

The tariff that all 3 of the companys use are the same, so their prices are identical except for the discount level that should be clearly stated.

I would reccomend going with the company that gave you the estimate that includes most of the items that you have on your own list.

Going with someone who was careless and underestimted is of no advantage.

I have been in the moving business many years and this advice is sound.

shawnathomas

mayflower and such

Postby shawnathomas » Mon Mar 24, 2003 6:58 pm

The tariff that all 3 of the companys use are the same, so their prices are identical except for the discount level that should be clearly stated.


not exactly, mayflower uses 400 N and the others are suing a previous tariff rate as quoted on their bill

they all quote a 65% discount rate and all have the same items listed but they vary in the # of boxes they state are needed and therefore eventually comprise the final ft3 and lbs.

thanks for the info

we got a final estimate today from allied who came in VERY close to mayflower. I feel better now that they are less of an outier in the group.

I appreciate the site and all the feedback

Shawn

Harry O'Brien
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 5:18 pm
Location: New York
Contact:

Postby Harry O'Brien » Tue Mar 25, 2003 9:02 am

They should all be using 400n. The ones that have 400m written it has to be a typo,because 400m hasnt been used by the major carriers since early 2001.

Be sure to make your own list and compare it to the movers "table of measurements". Example:If you have 150 boxes on your list and the mover has 50boxes on their "table of measurements" there could be as much as a 4000 lb differance which would increase your cost.
Also; call and find out about destination conditions where you are moving.
If the tractor trailer(53ft) has no access to where you are moving this could greatly increase your cost. Call your realty agent or building manager at your destination residence and find out if access is possible.

Best of Luck

Harry O'Brien
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 5:18 pm
Location: New York
Contact:

Postby Harry O'Brien » Tue Mar 25, 2003 9:14 am

400n was adopted by the 5 major carriers in 2002 .

Correcting my typo

Tyrone
Posts: 1595
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2003 5:18 pm

2 Questions for Harry

Postby Tyrone » Tue Mar 25, 2003 11:22 am

Two questions for Harry:

Harry O'Brien said:
"If you have 150 boxes on your list and the mover has 50 boxes on their "table of measurements" there could be as much as a 4000 lb differance which would increase your cost. "


The person stated that they had received a binding estimate from a "major." It is reasonable to assume that the person told the estimator, for example "we are taking those 150 boxes right there". If the mover writes down only 50 boxes (intentionally or unintentionally) then gives a binding estimate based on that, you have just revealed yet another massive loophole in the allegedly "binding" estimate process. Oops we made a mistake on the estimate, it's gonna cost you for an extra 4000 pounds!

So now it is the consumer's job to do the estimator's job as well? I'm sorry but if the estimator makes an error it is he who should eat the cost, not the powerless consumer who would now be faced with a hostage load situation. My first question is: do you realize that this voids the protections of a binding estimate even without having to resort to the old "you needed extra services at destination" bit.

Speaking of the extra services at destination, it is the MOVER'S job to see if the truck will fit at the destination. Who is the service professional here? The mover. So the professional onus is on the mover to determine the parameters of delivering the service! When I fly from City A to City B, I have hired the airline to perform a service. I am not expected to call ahead and make sure that City B has a runway big enough to accommodate the size of plane I'll be travelling in. That is the responsibility of the airline and ultimately of the pilot, the service professional hired to perform a job. If he wants a successful experience he draws upon his professional and industry knowledge, and he asks the questions that he knows need to be asked. You stated that the shuttle charge at destination would be a surprise to both shipper and mover, but that is not true. No professional would be surprised at something that is so common (if indeed it really is all that common). To the point where it would be professional negligence on the part of the mover if he failed to ask whether the destination could accommodate 53ft trailers. As such, the mover should eat the shuttle cost if he failed to ask about it ahead of time. I would concede that IF the mover asked the shipper, AND if the shipper said that the truck would fit, AND then in fact the truck did not fit, ONLY THEN should the shipper be liable.

2nd question: a "Major" line quoting only 5 cents a pound?? That is far cheaper than even the lowest lowballing scam mover I've ever seen! I am quite surprised you did not pick up on that and red-flag it. That would only be $500 to move ten thousand pounds! That is just absurd and with your experience you should have stated that. Short of a Star Trek style transporter beam I can't see how that is possible.

Well, get ready to say, "Beam me up, Moshe" because he's the only one who'll quote you 5 cents a pound. And you can bet your bottom dollar ol' Moshe has his phasers set on "SCAM".

Guest

Postby Guest » Tue Mar 25, 2003 4:27 pm

I am offering a proactive solution for consumers.

Tyrone,

If people were to follow your advice they would get bambozled first and cry about it later.

My advice by design is to empower the consumer with what he needs to achieve an accurate estimate and how to help themselves.
I am not making excuses for any company. If you compare your list to the movers "table of measurements" go with the estimate that is the most accurate and you will ultimatly be happier and feel better that you were proactive in choosing you mover.

Why choose a company that gave an estimate that does not include all the items that you want to ship ?

Why reward these scam moving companies with your business?

The analogy that I would use would be bringing your car to an unfamiliar auto mechanic. If you know what needs to be repaired you have a much better chance of getting an honest job then if you go in with no idea.

I think whats needed is actual stagedys that consumers can actually use to get a great move. I am offering one that I know is effective.

Instead of crying about it after the fact it would be more constructive to offer solutions.



-

twalker
Site Admin
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Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 11:46 am

Postby twalker » Tue Mar 25, 2003 5:08 pm

Harry,

Your advice will only get a consumer so far, and the part of your advice about only hiring one of the major moving companies shows how self-serving the 'advice' is. Besides self promotion, is there anything else that you would like to offer here? Otherwise just drop it already.

For those of you who would like truly helpful and realistic advice about hiring a mover from a consumer's standpoint, please take the time to read the article on this web site titled How to Find a Reputable Mover.

In addition, we need people's help in getting legislation passed so that consumers can actually have rights when they move. Please read the following article for more information on how you can let your representatives know what needs to be done:

Show Your Support For New Consumer Protections

Tim Walker
MovingScam.com

Support H.R. 1070

Postby Support H.R. 1070 » Tue Mar 25, 2003 5:17 pm

I used all of Harry's tips and still got ripped off. At least when H.R. 1070 gets passed, a customer will have recourse against the moving company. When H.R. 1070 gets passed, the majors will be a lot more motivated to give accurate estimates and not make customers pay for the estimator's "mistakes."

For now, moving yourself is the ONLY guarantee that you won't have your stuff held hostage. Either that or paying the mover $10,000 for what should reasonably be a $5000 job.

Harry O'Brien
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 5:18 pm
Location: New York
Contact:

Postby Harry O'Brien » Tue Mar 25, 2003 6:03 pm

I am not being self serving, as I have also stated that an independet that has a good reputaion could be an option too.

Also you will notice that I have only offered my help to consumers and have not been asking for their business here.

Support,

If you would like email me with the details of your move and I can give you effective advice on how you can proceed if you were truly wronged.
Take me up on it.

Tyrone
Posts: 1595
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2003 5:18 pm

Postby Tyrone » Tue Mar 25, 2003 6:05 pm

Someone named "Guest" (perhaps it was Harry?) said the following about me:
Tyrone, If people were to follow your advice they would get bambozled first and cry about it later.

I don't know what the heck you are talking about. The advice I have posted will lead to anything but being bamboozled. I will give you the benefit of the doubt that maybe you have just not seen any of the many, many postings I put up on both of the old message boards laying out, in detail, specific steps to avoid being scammed.

If anything, I have erred on the part of giving too much information to empower the consumer. My lists of specific steps have been quoted many times on print, TV and web media outlets. Check the May issue of Smart Money magazine for my latest published list. So we do agree that there are steps that can and should be taken. In fact, Harry, you and I agree on three out of four major points:

1) We agree that being scammed is NOT a foregone conclusion when hiring a moving company
2) We agree that there ARE steps a consumer can take to reduce the probability of being scammed.
3) We agree that there ARE steps the legislature and law enforcement can take that will reduce the proliferation of scammers

Where we disagree is the fourth point:
4) Regardless of how many steps a consumer takes to REDUCE the probability of being scammed, there is no way that the consumer can ELIMINATE the probability all the way to 0. That being said, it becomes a matter of, is it worth the risk? You feel that there is no legitimate risk, while I and many others know first hand that the risk is very real and very grave even under the best of circumstances. There are so many steps that a consumer must endure in an attempt to effectively mitigate the risk, that many consumers conclude that it is simply not worth the hassle and not worth the risk.

AIC

Estimator's mistakes in the "binding estimate" pro

Postby AIC » Tue Mar 25, 2003 9:30 pm

This is what will likely happen if the estimator/salesman (whether through incompetence, negligence, or outright fraud) marks down "50 boxes" (instead of the 150 pointed out to him by the customer) on the "Table of Measurements" form and bases his "binding" estimate on that:

The driver will show up on loading day and realize that there's an extra 4000 lbs. (based on the extra 100 boxes). He will ask to use the customer's telephone to call the local agent to issue a "challenge." The estimator from the local agent is called over to the house (if he can be found) and the driver confronts him about the under-estimate.

The estimator now has two options: (1) his agency (and the estimator, himself) will "eat" the loss caused by the careless or fraudulent estimate (that is, the driver will get paid based on actual, extra weight if he wins the challenge -- and that extra money will come from the estimator's pocket and his agency); or (2) tell the customer that he must sign an extra form (called a "change order" or "addendum" or the like) showing that the customer "agreed" to void the original, binding estimate and pay a new, much higher amount -- or else the customer is not going to get moved (even though the overly low "binding" estimate was the the estimator's fault).

At the same time, the driver now has two options: (1) he will transport an extra 4000 pounds for nothing; or (2) agree with the estimator that the customer must sign an extra form (called a "change order" or "addendum" or the like) showing that the customer "agreed" to void the original, binding estimate and pay a new, much higher amount -- or else the customer is not going to get moved (even though the overly low "binding" estimate was the estimator's fault).

Remember, this is loading day. The customer has everything packed up, has made arrangements to vacate the house, is closing on a new home in a few days, and has promised his new employer that he will show up for work next week. What do you think happens now?


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